Every business class I've been to has talked about how focus on keeping long-standing customers satisfied more than focusing on drawing in new customers is oft a more effective business model for any business you intend to keep more than a few years


Hey so it was pointed out to me that this post is being passed around like I made it about waterfall and Thell but it wasn't related to that at all and I'm just back quickly to clarify things.

I was doing homework for my business class when I posted this & it was literally just my train of thought at the time. It *was* what made me remember the discussion in the discord and got me to go back to read everything I missed, which is why it was posted shortly before my other post, but this was made 100% separate from the discussion and is not about my opinion on Thell, who imo is trying decently to balance new vs old user satisfaction, even if I disagree with his direction.

That said a large reason for me leaving now IS related to old user satisfaction; I have been unhappy with waterfall's unclear direction for a while. Almost no features I joined the site for (including the reasons I supported the kickstarter) are to remain in the rewrite, & I have no idea what direction the site wants to go in because there are constant changes of mind & I feel like a lot of new promises keep being made before old ones are fulfilled (or in the case of some, being abandoned), & even though the intentions are clearly coming from a place of good I've seen too many people over-promise before in my life to trust things are going to go as planned.

I was intending to stay because of the community & friends that I really genuinely care about here, but it doesn't seem fully worth it after seeing how things are addressed, because not clearly & concisely addressing the harm that was done to the artist (& other artists who felt like they might be singled out in future) does not give me assurance that this website will remain a comfortable place as it grows bigger.

The last thing I saw in the discord before leaving it was genuine confusion on what was going on with the website- And aggression & lack of patience in response. That is not the community I want to be in and I will not contribute to it anymore.

I genuinely care about you all. Even the people I disagree with or who I think behave poorly sometimes. So please. Just breathe a little. Think about what sort of community you want to foster & if being here is still healthy for you. Make the decision that is best for yourself and your health, even it that is moving on.

posted this
Time ago

I really just want to say, now that I’ve had a sleep and my head’s in place.

The thing that stuck out most to me in the conversation last night was that someone’s actual real art was used by someone else as an example of what was “less deserving” of protection, without the artist’s consent. I saw no apology for the wording of the post and I think it was really inappropriate to use someone’s actual work as an example.

Every time this got brought up people acted like it was others being upset by the **vague concept** of some art is better than others; but it wasn’t a concept of it, someone was non-consentually **singled out** as an example of “worse” artist out of two and when they expressed their discomfort and upset they were ignored/glossed over and it was not shown to be addressed.

It’s VERY important to me that the wording of the post wasn’t “the algorithm will have a worse time with this one” and that it was “this one is *less deserving of protection*”. And it was very frustrating that the insulting wording went ignored by people in the server and that I saw no correction or apology about the use of a real user’s work.

Users should **not** be allowed to single out other users and their art, especially not publicly in front of the entire server and I think it’s *absolutely reasonable* that some people want to leave after seeing a user singled out as a “bad example” be left unaddressed. It was an uncomfortable thing to witness it go ignored when, on other art sites like deviantart, singling out another artist’s work as a bad example is often considered a form of harassment by staff.

A lot of heat from yesterday, at least after I came in, was sparked by the insulting comment and it progressed when people ignored the fact the comment had been insulting.

A LOT of people were trying to say “I’m upset that this users art was used as an example of art that the poster considered bad” but people then replied with talk about the algorithm not being able to pick it up, when the algorithm was **not** the issue with the comment; the direct and real insult to the quality of another user’s work was the issue.

If the comment had been “this sort of art is hard for the algorithm to pick up” I would have no issue. But the original comment was actively implying that an artist’s drawing was worse than another artist’s. It is one thing to talk about some art pieces being good or bad, it is *another thing entirely* to single out a user as an example.

THAT is what a lot of people are upset about and it is making me EXTREMELY uncomfortable that it is has not been addressed, especially now that statements are being made about other things. Where is the acknowledgement of the harm that was done to this artist? Not even just acknowledgement by Thell, but acknowledgement by the overall community? I care about all of you. And I care about the artist who was singled out. And I’m very upset that this is what the community decided was okay to do to someone.

I have supported the site with money before. I was a kickstarter backer, an on-off patron, and I have put actual real effort into advertising the website and had multiple people join on my recommendation, even before things such as the invite system were implemented. And now I feel genuinely **embarrassed** and upset that I put my name and money out there for a community that allowed the public calling out and insult of someone who **literally did nothing wrong** with no obvious statement against it or repercussions for the hurt that was caused.

I’m very upset that the community drowned out the fact that a real actual person, a member of the community, was so obviously hurt by their work being used in the server without their consent. It was far from appropriate and it's left an extremely bad taste in my mouth.

I do not want to be part of a community that thinks it is appropriate to treat its members this way.